Curse

Snow Bunny · May 21, 2008, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

When those people where r0 so was everyone else; is not the case now.

WTS the ability to think coherently.

WTS Thought Beyond Selfish Interest

It's really not that hard. You can get bambi from r0 in a month, easily. This isn't a title made to be maxed - it's a title for PvPers.

I really dislike that people QQ over double champ weekends in the same regard. These titles are for serious PvPers who are willing to put in the hours to go up the ladder. It's not a weekend thing.

If you all put as much effort into getting a hero emote as you all do in maxing those foolish EotN titles, you'd all have your bambi/wolf/tiger.

Tiered HA would just produce shittier players, I can say this for certain.

D E C E P T I V E · May 21, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiceCream

when i war r0 peeps have big emotes, now i have big emotes (this was a while back but as i recalled people were crying about this same idea back then). wts the ability to not be bad at game.
Stop trying to make this game easier. its for ages 12+ cause its supposed to provide a challenge to pre-teens.
if HA is too hard, or your too impatient to get your fuzzy little bambi which your going to spam for about 2hrs straight in Ascalon City, go drop 250k for the zaishen emote.
tiering HA, as has been stated above and in the other two thousand threads of this sort, will not improve your play skill at all.
people get new emotes on a daily baisis, so clearly they have the ability to play the game.
sardelac sanitarium: stop trying to dumb down the game >.<

Why do you write such statements I wonder. Is because it makes you feel good about yourself because your such a loser that you have to say things that make you seem leet in a video game world.

If I were you I would be very careful about even thinking the word dumb let alone writing, or saying it outloud, especially when referring to someone other than yourself.

The post was way over your head because you missed the point completely. Nothing you wrote even remotely relates to anything in the OP. Before you respond to posts maybe you should grow a cerebral cortex and go back to school and learn how to comprehend what you read.

Its not about getting emotes (I already have a bambi and I guarantee you I havent spammed it nearly us much as you spammed yours) its not about the game being hard. If an idiot like you can play it obviously doesnt take much.

To put it in its simplest terms it is about getting more people into HA because its dead.

People could learn by going up against others of the same exp level. R0 are not going to run a balanced, sway, spike, or whatever kind of group as well as a R9 group and they arent going to last long enough to really learn anything against such an experienced group. If the want to watch higher ranked groups thats what observer mode is for. People will learn more by playing anyway. I would like to actually hear a valid reason that people couldnt learn from playing others of the same level because it makes no sense. Saying R9s learn nothing from rolling unranked groups that dont know how to play seems more valid.

It its been stated so many times maybe its a good idea that devs at Anet should look into. Listening to the hardcore PvP crowd has put HA where it is now, dead.

If you are going to respond to this please say something at least semi-intelligent. An truly intelligent statement would clearly be asking too much.

Cale Roughstar · May 21, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

a lot of retarded ideas from someone who does not, nor never will understand HA.

What a lot of people do not understand is that true HA'ers do not play for rank or fame, they play to WIN and to have FUN and that is what so many do not understand. PvE'rs see the shiny emotes, think to themselves "me want" and go try HA, get their asses handed to them, and come to Sardelac to complain. True HA'ers do not care about rank, they care about how good you are. If you are bad, they do not want you. Rank is often an indicator of someones skill (not always), but it is the best you can do without actually playing with someone, and since time is money, rank discrimination exists.

HA is about fun and winning, and it is not fun explaining things over and over, and it is not fun losing.

RavagerOfDreams · May 21, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cale Roughstar

What a lot of people do not understand is that true HA'ers do not play for rank or fame, they play to WIN and to have FUN and that is what so many do not understand. PvE'rs see the shiny emotes, think to themselves "me want" and go try HA, get their asses handed to them, and come to Sardelac to complain. True HA'ers do not care about rank, they care about how good you are. If you are bad, they do not want you. Rank is often an indicator of someones skill (not always), but it is the best you can do without actually playing with someone, and since time is money, rank discrimination exists.

HA is about fun and winning, and it is not fun explaining things over and over, and it is not fun losing.

^wut he said

its no fun if you lose and since you don't win with unraked pugs theres no fun in playing with em

join a ha guild that is willing to teach you. Problem solved?

Sir Tificate · May 22, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

^wut he said

its no fun if you lose and since you don't win with unraked pugs theres no fun in playing with em

join a ha guild that is willing to teach you. Problem solved?

Which means they need to implement a better (or any) guild finding system? That would be nice, too.

For keeping R0 people from winning against R0 people when both have really lousy builds and strategy... how about we just make the Zaishen at the start of HA better? Semi-random skills based on popular builds, better AI, something that requires people to have half an idea before they start, an automatic filter that should be bypassed easily by having a good team.

And then, separately, a HA training arena, vs. AIs of varying builds (same as the updated Zaishen) for up to 25 fame total, and have it constantly giving you hints:
That warrior will have trouble damaging you if you run away.
That character has a reusable resurrection skill, you might get them first.
Several physical attackers are near this ally: does he/she need some help?
Your character has no business being that close to the enemies' group. Stay behind the rest of the team to avoid being a major target.

(Obviously, need more hints from more experienced people.)

But, a well-designed NPC training ground to prepare people for HA and a similar NPC group at the start of HA to filter out people with no clue could help a tiered system for HA work, and may be helpful on their own.

RiceCream · May 22, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E C E P T I V E

Why do you write such statements I wonder. Is because it makes you feel good about yourself because your such a loser that you have to say things that make you seem leet in a video game world.
Lots of flame

wow that was an exceedingly hostile and uncalled for post there

...
and i ask you the same question back. my apologies if my post appeared to be directed at you. "you" can be both second person singular and second person plural. my intent was for that to be second person plural: speaking to a generalized audience.

I simply disagree with your notion of this being a "good idea" as it defeats the purpose of HA; to be a competitive matching system where the strongest teams with the strongest skills and tactics reap in the rewards. just because it is a recurring thread, doesnt mean its a beneficial idea.

personally, i think tiering HA would not defeat rank discrimination. for example, in the r3-r5 tier, rank discrimination will still occur. groups will form of just r5s and guess what. the r5's have a greater chance of dominating, since they have more HA experience. theoretically. players "graduating" from their tier will find themselves plunged into a tier they are not ready for since their last few weeks in the earlier tier, all they did was farm the less experienced players for fame. And imagine the wait time between matches with five separate tiers in HA, especially for higher ranked groups...

if anet does for some reason incorporate this, i predict there will be a large amount of GW's purchased, primarily second accounts with which experienced players will be trashing inexperienced ones. why? cause its fun. it will only cause more complaints and grief.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

So how does an r0 learn from an r12? Well by paying attention to what team build they have and what skills they use, it's not hard.

learn from defeat. that is how you become a better player, whether its in soccer, swimming or HA.

perhaps this post is a bit more civil and you can understand my position here.

Randvek · May 22, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by natural_Causes

There aren't enough HA'ers to make this effective

Agreed. Of course it's a lovely idea, but there are barely enough players to make our current HA usable, let alone splitting it up into more.

Better question, perhaps: would more people come if it were this way? Nothing wrong with ANet making this happen for a weekend and looking at the results.

pumpkin pie · May 22, 2008, 07:24 AM // 07:24

all of you just want to have new HA team so you get fame faster. if its split to tiered you have to fight HA team of your same standard and you are afraid this will mean even longer time to get fame.

ps: not all high ranking ha people really knows how to HA, I for one know people who take other players along for fame if they pay them per fame, but I have no proof, I over heard/saw it.

Navaros · May 22, 2008, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Official endorsement of player discrimination and segregation as this OP is suggesting, is a horrible idea. Unsigned.

However, there should be a random HA. You press enter battle, and are randomly paired up with 7 other players, to fight other random HA teams for all the same benefits that normal HA gives. That is a good idea.

Orange Milk · May 22, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros
However, there should be a random HA. You press enter battle, and are randomly paired up with 7 other players, to fight other random HA teams for all the same benefits that normal HA gives. That is a good idea.

No it's not, your saying you want RA style shit in HA? LMAO, baed really baed idea, mass /ragequit followed by super QQing about dishonorable hex. Need to find a group easier? Use the Party Search key. Need to find a HA guild easier? Use one of the MANY GW Fan sites that have a recruiting section, like this one right here on this very site:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=265

@ Sir Tificate - 2 words "Zashine Elite" that IS the PvP NPC training ground. No it's not perfect, but it's there for a reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E C E P T I V E
It its been stated so many times maybe its a good idea that devs at Anet should look into

Use the search button to Locate the other times this idea has been suggested and see how many people flame the living shit out of the idea and how many agree with it. Just because lazy QQers continue to suggest something it doesn't make it good. Example: Just because you are stupid doesn't mean the rest of us should be. See?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rice Cream
personally, i think tiering HA would not defeat rank discrimination. for example, in the r3-r5 tier, rank discrimination will still occur. groups will form of just r5s and guess what. the r5's have a greater chance of dominating, since they have more HA experience. theoretically. players "graduating" from their tier will find themselves plunged into a tier they are not ready for since their last few weeks in the earlier tier, all they did was farm the less experienced players for fame. And imagine the wait time between matches with five separate tiers in HA, especially for higher ranked groups...

Don't worry Rice, if 5 tiers were implemented Deceptive would be right back here QQing that HA is still hard and that every rank should be a tier, so if you are r3 then you can only team with r3's and only fight r3's. Then, maybe just maybe, he could get to r4. IN which case he would then come back here and QQ that people who are over half way to their next rank should be tiered sepreratly from those who just received their new rank because the ones with more fame are better and kick the shit out of him. So then we would have 30 tiers of HA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E C E P T I V E
People could learn by going up against others of the same exp level I would like to actually hear a valid reason that people couldnt learn from playing others of the same level because it makes no sense

I give you the example of the Arena "Hero Battles" Everyone starts out at a bad level, and you can win with pretty much any random build and a tad bit of common sense, because you are facing other people new to the arena who are also new to the arena and running any random build. Now once you have defeated a handful of nobodies you gain rank/rating and begin to face tougher opponents to whom you loose because you didn't learn much facing other poo's such as yourself. Now what do you do? You tank your rank so you can face crap people again and get your Commander 1 or 2 or 3 title. It happens ALL THE TIME in HB. The didn't learn enough facing noob's to beat veterans so they go back to facing noobs where they know they can win, but they still will not learn enough to beat people on the ladder.

Obviously you can't tank your Fame amount, so once you move up a tier and you fail hard, whats there to do at this point? Either QQ more or quit, thats your options because you learned nothing facing other rank0's.

Also, there is no reason to insult Rice or anyone for that matter just because your idea is bad and they disagree with you.

Cale Roughstar · May 23, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

However, there should be a random HA. You press enter battle, and are randomly paired up with 7 other players, to fight other random HA teams for all the same benefits that normal HA gives. That is a good idea.

Ummm, no it is not.

8 Man RA should NOT give the same benefits as a co-ordinated team. You want your bambi the random way? Join a randomway. They get fame every now and then. Or better yet, roll a R/D. You will learn just as much as in a randomway (which is to say ZILCH), but you get 5x as much fame.

Div · May 23, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

So if you're anything above r6, it takes 20+ minutes to get a match! Sweet!

Ghen · May 23, 2008, 10:44 PM // 22:44

I like the idea but what if u get in a mixed group with ranked / unranked ?

Star Gazer · May 23, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

text of shit

actually, this type of thinking is exactly what killed HA. what killed HA you asked? if someone did not pvp from the start, earn their r0 when everyone else did, they were not let in on a group if they didnt have a certain rank. this is probably one of the reasons anet implemented the "ping bar" update, to prove they had the 8 skills required for the build. HA got killed by higher rank people not allowing "nonranked" or "lower ranked" individuals, hence restricted the addition of a whole new player base.

YOU are to thank for HA being dead. This would be a perfect addition: those who, with lower ranks, will finally be able to learn some pvp, and may be the leader of the next iQ guild. i would really like it if they implemented this. maybe us "lesser folk" will be able to get into high-end pvp. let the flames begin...i know how much you guys hate someone have an opinion that differs from yours.

Div · May 24, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

YOU are to thank for HA being dead. This would be a perfect addition: those who, with lower ranks, will finally be able to learn some pvp, and may be the leader of the next iQ guild.

If they were truly that good, they'd find a way to get into good HA groups while being unranked. Just face it, most people suck and just want rank to be easy like PvE. I started HA when everyone was asking for r9+ and I was unranked. I still got into groups. Anyone who thinks you need tiered HA to get into higher level PvP is just bad and wants it easy.

Adja1005 · May 24, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

The problem with HA now is the elitist attitude so many players have regarding low rank or unranked players. The high ranks just laugh and stick their noses up at those unranked or low rank players. Which is really not that fair at all, at the moment if your unranked and trying to gain rank in HA its near impossible to find a decent group.

You can sit there for a good hour or more spamming in local chat "LFG!" and get no where. If your unranked you really only have two options, try to form a serious group of unranked players, which is tough due to so many /rage quits, or go randomway which hardly ever works.

Personally i'd just leave HA like it is at the moment and leave the ranked players to continue being snobs. If you want to do some fun or serious PvP then GvG and even to some extent AB is probably a better option.

Orange Milk · May 24, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer
Wall of QQ

You know how I HA?

Not by spamming "LFG" I use my Alliance, muy guild and my Freinds list.

Al those people are > PUG

See there is already a way to make HA easier youjust have to use those ways instead of beign lazy.

Also I started GW 11 months after it was released, just had my 2 year Bdays last month. So yeah, I got groups in HA and got rank you can to.

You Look Grim · May 24, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If they were truly that good, they'd find a way to get into good HA groups while being unranked. Just face it, most people suck and just want rank to be easy like PvE. I started HA when everyone was asking for r9+ and I was unranked. I still got into groups. Anyone who thinks you need tiered HA to get into higher level PvP is just bad and wants it easy.

this is true. i started guild wars only a few months ago, and
i'm already building up my hero and champion titles.
find a good active guild around your level and play with them.

Sir Tificate · May 24, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

From what people say, then, the major problem with entering Hero's Ascent is that it seems like it is very difficult and it seems like you are getting nowhere by doing what seems to be the correct thing to do, IE going to Hero's Ascent and trying to get a party.

Situation:
Someone comes to Hero's Ascent for the first time, having done all the RA/TA stuff that the game makes you do first. They figure they are not too bad of a player; after all, they were able to beat all of the PvE campaigns with no problem, and they had no real trouble in RA or TA, maybe they even play AB a bit on the side.

Then they join a group in the same way they've always chosen to join groups, because it has always been successful before; why shouldn't it be now?
Then they get steamrolled by the first team they fight. Several people ragequit, then they decide to maybe make another attempt, this time taking more time in forming a group. They spend twenty or so minutes again, getting an unranked or low rank group together, coordinating builds, and then they finally go in.

Then they get steamrolled by the first team they fight, this time perhaps a higher rank team or a guild team. More ragequitting, maybe another group. They try again, taking a longer time, getting a more defined group together, it takes about an hour. They lose again, but not quite so badly.

Then they consider what they have been doing for the past while. They have spent an hour and a half or up to two hours playing Hero's Ascent. During this time, they were able to play 3 matches, all of which they lost, for a total of maybe 80 faction and no fame. After this, they seriously reconsider playing Hero's Ascent.

Important part
The problem? Nothing else in the game prepares anyone for HA or GvG in the ways that they should. This is partially because missions are easy; you don't need to spend long adding Heroes and Henchmen or even just forming a pug quick and you can quite probably beat a mission with no trouble, or at least get noticeably further on each try. You never have to call on guild mates for a mission. You rarely have to communicate with your teammates to win. You hardly even need to take good builds. The overpowered PvE skills mean that you don't even need to be very practiced.
/Important part

I know that the original intent of PvE was to prepare people for PvP, and though that was changed, PvE shouldn't make people LESS prepared for PvP than they are when they first get the game. By the time people play PvE or the lesser PvP modes for awhile, they have the feeling that they know what they are doing, and are less likely to learn how to do something different, since they already learned how to play the game. Why should one part of the game be so different from the rest?
Then, when they try and play it as they have learned to play, they lose, get discouraged, get annoyed with the insults, and get tired of not being accepted into better groups due to rank. Thus, before they even think about trying to get a Hero's Ascent group from their guild or alliance, they have given up on ever bothering with high-end PvP.

Snow Bunny · May 24, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

actually, this type of thinking is exactly what killed HA. what killed HA you asked? if someone did not pvp from the start, earn their r0 when everyone else did, they were not let in on a group if they didnt have a certain rank. this is probably one of the reasons anet implemented the "ping bar" update, to prove they had the 8 skills required for the build. HA got killed by higher rank people not allowing "nonranked" or "lower ranked" individuals, hence restricted the addition of a whole new player base.

YOU are to thank for HA being dead. This would be a perfect addition: those who, with lower ranks, will finally be able to learn some pvp, and may be the leader of the next iQ guild. i would really like it if they implemented this. maybe us "lesser folk" will be able to get into high-end pvp. let the flames begin...i know how much you guys hate someone have an opinion that differs from yours.

Stop being a moron, please. Shitty players playing against shitty players = shitty players.